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Sanctioned spyware maker Intellexa had direct access to government espionage victims, researchers say | TechCrunch

Sanctioned spyware maker Intellexa had direct access to government espionage victims, researchers say | TechCrunch

Spyware maker Intellexa had remote access to some of its government customers’ surveillance systems, giving company staffers the ability to see the personal data of people whose phones had been hacked with its Predator spyware, according to new evidence published by Amnesty International. 

On Thursday, Amnesty and a coalition of media partners, including Israeli newspaper Haaretz, Greek news site Inside Story, and Swiss outlet Inside IT, published a series of reports based on leaked material from Intellexa, including internal company documents, sales and marketing material, and training videos. 

Perhaps the most striking revelation is that people working at Intellexa could allegedly remotely access the surveillance systems of at least some of its customers via TeamViewer, an off-the-shelf tool that allows users to connect to other computers over the internet.

The remote access is shown in a leaked training video revealing privileged parts of the Predator spyware system, including its dashboard, as well as the “storage system containing photos, messages and all other surveillance data gathered from victims of the Predator spyware,” Amnesty wrote in its report. (Amnesty published screenshots taken from the video, but not the full video.)

The nonprofit researchers wrote that the leaked video shows apparent “live” Predator infection attempts “against real targets,” based on detailed information “from at least one infection attempt against a target in Kazakhstan.” The video contained the infection URL, the target’s IP address, and the software versions of the target’s phone.

A screenshot of the dashboard of an Intellexa customer surveillance system, which shows the types of sensitive personal data of hacked targets that customers and Intellexa support staff may have access to. (Image: Amnesty International)

Companies that sell spyware to government agencies, such as NSO Group and the now-defunct Hacking Team, have long maintained that they never have access to the data of their customers’ targets, nor their customers’ systems. There are several reasons why. 

From the point of view of the spyware makers, they don’t want the potential legal liability if their customers use the spyware unlawfully. And, spyware makers would rather say that once they sell their spyware, the customers are fully responsible for using it. From the government customers’ standpoint, they don’t want to expose details of their sensitive investigations, such as targets’ names, locations, and personal data, to a private company that may be based overseas.

In other words, this type of remote access is absolutely not “normal,” as Paolo Lezzi, the chief executive of spyware maker Memento Labs, told TechCrunch when contacted for this story to ask from the perspective of a spyware maker. “No [government] agency would accept it,” he said.

That’s why Lezzi was skeptical that the leaked training video was showing access to an actual customer’s live surveillance system. Perhaps, he posited, this was training material showing a demo environment. The chief executive also said that some customers have asked Memento Labs to have access to their systems, but the company only accepts the offer if it’s necessary to solve technical issues. In any case, he said, “they enable us to have TeamViewer access for the necessary time and under their supervision we carry out the intervention and leave.”

Contact Us

Do you have more information about Intellexa? Or other spyware makers? From a non-work device, you can contact Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai securely on Signal at +1 917 257 1382, or via Telegram and Keybase @lorenzofb, or email.

Amnesty, however, is convinced that the leaked video does show access to live Predator surveillance systems. 

“One of the staff in the training call ask if it was a demo environment, and the instructor confirmed it was a live customer system,” said Donncha Ó Cearbhaill the head of Amnesty’s security lab, which did the technical analysis of the leaked material, and has investigated several cases of Predator infections.   

The claim that Intellexa staffers had visibility into who their customers were spying on raised Amnesty’s concerns about security and privacy.

“These findings can only add to the concerns of potential surveillance victims. Not only is their most sensitive data exposed to a government or other spyware customer, but their data risks being exposed to a foreign surveillance company, which has demonstrable issues in keeping their confidential data stored securely,” the nonprofit wrote in the report. 

Intellexa could not be reached for comment. A lawyer speaking on behalf of Intellexa’s founder Tal Dilian told Haaretz that Dilian has “not committed any crime nor operated any cyber system in Greece or anywhere else.”

Dilian is one of the more controversial people in the world of government spyware. A veteran of the spyware industry previously told TechCrunch that Dilian “moves like an elephant in a crystal shop,” implying he made little effort to conceal his activities.

“In that particular space of spyware sellers you have to be extremely balanced and attentive… but he didn’t care,” said the person.

In 2024, the U.S. government announced sanctions against Tal Dilian and one of his business partners, Sara Aleksandra Fayssal Hamou. In that case, the U.S. Treasury imposed sanctions based on allegations that Intellexa’s spyware was used against Americans, including U.S. government officials, journalists, and policy experts. The sanctions make it illegal for American companies and nationals to have any commercial relationship with Dilian and Hamou.

That was the first time the U.S. government, which has taken actions against spyware NSO Group, targeted a specific person involved in the industry.  

In his response to Haaretz, Dilian accused journalists of being “useful idiots” in an “orchestrated campaign” to hurt him and his company, which was “fed into the Biden administration.”

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#Sanctioned #spyware #maker #Intellexa #direct #access #government #espionage #victims #researchers #TechCrunch


Flock Safety’s automatic license plate reader cameras have become targets of public ire and, increasingly, vandalism, with people stealing or destroying them in the dead of night. The company at one point had a plan to keep its eyes open in a way that would be harder to detect, according to 404 Media: by equipping dashcams on rideshare and delivery vehicles with the ability to scan plates while on the road.

In a pitch presentation apparently prepared for the Georgia Office of the Attorney General, Flock reportedly talked up a planned partnership with Nexar, a popular dashcam manufacturer. The theoretical deal would have used Nexar’s network of cameras to scan vehicle plates as drivers went about their business. Flock apparently suggested that it would create a network of more than 350,000 Uber, Lyft, and other delivery service drivers who would all serve as eyes for the company.

Flock’s partnership with Nexar never came to fruition. But the fact that it failed doesn’t really minimize the concern that the company tried to make it happen. Importantly, it’s not clear that drivers would have been made aware of the fact that their camera was serving as a snitch or not—it’s possible the scans would have taken place without any obvious indication that what was being captured on their dashcam was being shared with Flock—and presumably with law enforcement.

Gizmodo reached out to Flock for additional information but did not receive a response at the time of publication.

Nexar is already engaged in a pretty massive project of collecting data from its drivers. The company claims to anonymize data collected from its dashcams and sells it to third parties and publishes a fully user-generated, real-time map called CityStream. Whether drivers are aware of the fact that they are contributing to this or not is unclear—per 404 Media, in some jurisdictions, users are automatically contributing their data to CityStream and have to opt out of sharing.

Flock also isn’t the only company to apparently think up the idea of turning vehicles into mobile surveillance for “safety” purposes. Earlier this year, a company called BusPatrol—which uses cameras on school buses to identify people who blow past the “Stop” sign arm deployed—came under fire when it was revealed that it was planning to let law enforcement use those cameras to scan license plates. Given the abuses that law enforcement across the country have already committed with access to Flock cameras, seems the last thing they need is more camera angles to sift through.

#Flock #Reportedly #Turn #Uber #Drivers #Mobile #Snitchesartifical intelligence,Dashcams,flock,Flock Safety,license plate readers,Lyft,Uber">Flock Reportedly Tried to Turn Uber Drivers Into Mobile Snitches
                Flock Safety’s automatic license plate reader cameras have become targets of public ire and, increasingly, vandalism, with people stealing or destroying them in the dead of night. The company at one point had a plan to keep its eyes open in a way that would be harder to detect, according to 404 Media: by equipping dashcams on rideshare and delivery vehicles with the ability to scan plates while on the road. In a pitch presentation apparently prepared for the Georgia Office of the Attorney General, Flock reportedly talked up a planned partnership with Nexar, a popular dashcam manufacturer. The theoretical deal would have used Nexar’s network of cameras to scan vehicle plates as drivers went about their business. Flock apparently suggested that it would create a network of more than 350,000 Uber, Lyft, and other delivery service drivers who would all serve as eyes for the company. Flock’s partnership with Nexar never came to fruition. But the fact that it failed doesn’t really minimize the concern that the company tried to make it happen. Importantly, it’s not clear that drivers would have been made aware of the fact that their camera was serving as a snitch or not—it’s possible the scans would have taken place without any obvious indication that what was being captured on their dashcam was being shared with Flock—and presumably with law enforcement.

 Gizmodo reached out to Flock for additional information but did not receive a response at the time of publication. Nexar is already engaged in a pretty massive project of collecting data from its drivers. The company claims to anonymize data collected from its dashcams and sells it to third parties and publishes a fully user-generated, real-time map called CityStream. Whether drivers are aware of the fact that they are contributing to this or not is unclear—per 404 Media, in some jurisdictions, users are automatically contributing their data to CityStream and have to opt out of sharing.

 Flock also isn’t the only company to apparently think up the idea of turning vehicles into mobile surveillance for “safety” purposes. Earlier this year, a company called BusPatrol—which uses cameras on school buses to identify people who blow past the “Stop” sign arm deployed—came under fire when it was revealed that it was planning to let law enforcement use those cameras to scan license plates. Given the abuses that law enforcement across the country have already committed with access to Flock cameras, seems the last thing they need is more camera angles to sift through.      #Flock #Reportedly #Turn #Uber #Drivers #Mobile #Snitchesartifical intelligence,Dashcams,flock,Flock Safety,license plate readers,Lyft,Uber

stealing or destroying them in the dead of night. The company at one point had a plan to keep its eyes open in a way that would be harder to detect, according to 404 Media: by equipping dashcams on rideshare and delivery vehicles with the ability to scan plates while on the road.

In a pitch presentation apparently prepared for the Georgia Office of the Attorney General, Flock reportedly talked up a planned partnership with Nexar, a popular dashcam manufacturer. The theoretical deal would have used Nexar’s network of cameras to scan vehicle plates as drivers went about their business. Flock apparently suggested that it would create a network of more than 350,000 Uber, Lyft, and other delivery service drivers who would all serve as eyes for the company.

Flock’s partnership with Nexar never came to fruition. But the fact that it failed doesn’t really minimize the concern that the company tried to make it happen. Importantly, it’s not clear that drivers would have been made aware of the fact that their camera was serving as a snitch or not—it’s possible the scans would have taken place without any obvious indication that what was being captured on their dashcam was being shared with Flock—and presumably with law enforcement.

Gizmodo reached out to Flock for additional information but did not receive a response at the time of publication.

Nexar is already engaged in a pretty massive project of collecting data from its drivers. The company claims to anonymize data collected from its dashcams and sells it to third parties and publishes a fully user-generated, real-time map called CityStream. Whether drivers are aware of the fact that they are contributing to this or not is unclear—per 404 Media, in some jurisdictions, users are automatically contributing their data to CityStream and have to opt out of sharing.

Flock also isn’t the only company to apparently think up the idea of turning vehicles into mobile surveillance for “safety” purposes. Earlier this year, a company called BusPatrol—which uses cameras on school buses to identify people who blow past the “Stop” sign arm deployed—came under fire when it was revealed that it was planning to let law enforcement use those cameras to scan license plates. Given the abuses that law enforcement across the country have already committed with access to Flock cameras, seems the last thing they need is more camera angles to sift through.

#Flock #Reportedly #Turn #Uber #Drivers #Mobile #Snitchesartifical intelligence,Dashcams,flock,Flock Safety,license plate readers,Lyft,Uber">Flock Reportedly Tried to Turn Uber Drivers Into Mobile SnitchesFlock Reportedly Tried to Turn Uber Drivers Into Mobile Snitches
                Flock Safety’s automatic license plate reader cameras have become targets of public ire and, increasingly, vandalism, with people stealing or destroying them in the dead of night. The company at one point had a plan to keep its eyes open in a way that would be harder to detect, according to 404 Media: by equipping dashcams on rideshare and delivery vehicles with the ability to scan plates while on the road. In a pitch presentation apparently prepared for the Georgia Office of the Attorney General, Flock reportedly talked up a planned partnership with Nexar, a popular dashcam manufacturer. The theoretical deal would have used Nexar’s network of cameras to scan vehicle plates as drivers went about their business. Flock apparently suggested that it would create a network of more than 350,000 Uber, Lyft, and other delivery service drivers who would all serve as eyes for the company. Flock’s partnership with Nexar never came to fruition. But the fact that it failed doesn’t really minimize the concern that the company tried to make it happen. Importantly, it’s not clear that drivers would have been made aware of the fact that their camera was serving as a snitch or not—it’s possible the scans would have taken place without any obvious indication that what was being captured on their dashcam was being shared with Flock—and presumably with law enforcement.

 Gizmodo reached out to Flock for additional information but did not receive a response at the time of publication. Nexar is already engaged in a pretty massive project of collecting data from its drivers. The company claims to anonymize data collected from its dashcams and sells it to third parties and publishes a fully user-generated, real-time map called CityStream. Whether drivers are aware of the fact that they are contributing to this or not is unclear—per 404 Media, in some jurisdictions, users are automatically contributing their data to CityStream and have to opt out of sharing.

 Flock also isn’t the only company to apparently think up the idea of turning vehicles into mobile surveillance for “safety” purposes. Earlier this year, a company called BusPatrol—which uses cameras on school buses to identify people who blow past the “Stop” sign arm deployed—came under fire when it was revealed that it was planning to let law enforcement use those cameras to scan license plates. Given the abuses that law enforcement across the country have already committed with access to Flock cameras, seems the last thing they need is more camera angles to sift through.      #Flock #Reportedly #Turn #Uber #Drivers #Mobile #Snitchesartifical intelligence,Dashcams,flock,Flock Safety,license plate readers,Lyft,Uber

Flock Safety’s automatic license plate reader cameras have become targets of public ire and, increasingly, vandalism, with people stealing or destroying them in the dead of night. The company at one point had a plan to keep its eyes open in a way that would be harder to detect, according to 404 Media: by equipping dashcams on rideshare and delivery vehicles with the ability to scan plates while on the road.

In a pitch presentation apparently prepared for the Georgia Office of the Attorney General, Flock reportedly talked up a planned partnership with Nexar, a popular dashcam manufacturer. The theoretical deal would have used Nexar’s network of cameras to scan vehicle plates as drivers went about their business. Flock apparently suggested that it would create a network of more than 350,000 Uber, Lyft, and other delivery service drivers who would all serve as eyes for the company.

Flock’s partnership with Nexar never came to fruition. But the fact that it failed doesn’t really minimize the concern that the company tried to make it happen. Importantly, it’s not clear that drivers would have been made aware of the fact that their camera was serving as a snitch or not—it’s possible the scans would have taken place without any obvious indication that what was being captured on their dashcam was being shared with Flock—and presumably with law enforcement.

Gizmodo reached out to Flock for additional information but did not receive a response at the time of publication.

Nexar is already engaged in a pretty massive project of collecting data from its drivers. The company claims to anonymize data collected from its dashcams and sells it to third parties and publishes a fully user-generated, real-time map called CityStream. Whether drivers are aware of the fact that they are contributing to this or not is unclear—per 404 Media, in some jurisdictions, users are automatically contributing their data to CityStream and have to opt out of sharing.

Flock also isn’t the only company to apparently think up the idea of turning vehicles into mobile surveillance for “safety” purposes. Earlier this year, a company called BusPatrol—which uses cameras on school buses to identify people who blow past the “Stop” sign arm deployed—came under fire when it was revealed that it was planning to let law enforcement use those cameras to scan license plates. Given the abuses that law enforcement across the country have already committed with access to Flock cameras, seems the last thing they need is more camera angles to sift through.

#Flock #Reportedly #Turn #Uber #Drivers #Mobile #Snitchesartifical intelligence,Dashcams,flock,Flock Safety,license plate readers,Lyft,Uber

Yiyang Zhuge learned last week that when you go extremely viral, the people you have been following for years suddenly start following you back. Zhuge logged onto X and found that a string of famous professors and scholars were in her list of new followers. A PhD candidate in political philosophy at Boston College, Zhuge had previously only lurked on X to keep up with the latest debates and gossip in academia. The vast majority of her social media activity happens on the Chinese internet, where she goes by the alias Zhong Shu and hosts a popular podcast with hundreds of thousands of loyal listeners.

Late last month, Zhuge, who is in her late twenties, interviewed Christopher Nolan, one of the most influential directors in Hollywood, who was in Beijing promoting The Odyssey. Rather than asking about celebrities or Hollywood, Zhuge posed a series of deeply philosophical questions to Nolan about the Christianization of Greek philosophy and how to portray heroes in films. The first thing she asked: “Are you a bard for a civilization at dusk?”

Nolan was visibly impressed by Zhuge. After the interview was published in China, Geoff Keighley, a video game journalist and the son of Nolan’s longtime friend David Keighley, shared the interview on X, calling it “a great listen.” Keighley’s video has been watched over 18 million times, and when Zhuge later posted the interview on her own X account, it racked up another 6.9 million views.

For the first time, Zhuge had become the main character of the English-speaking internet. She was being praised, mocked, criticized, and defended all at the same time. Many people said it was the best interview Nolan has done for The Odyssey, while the National Review called it a “CCP hostage video.” But everyone ultimately wanted to know the same thing: Who was this young Chinese woman with a bob haircut talking about the decline of civilizations?

While almost no one in the West knows her name, Zhuge is already one of the most prominent young intellectuals in China and has been interviewed by many of the country’s cultural elite. She was featured in Vogue China as an example of a successful woman in her twenties and frequently shares yoga and fitness tips to her 360,000 fans on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu.

When I spoke to Zhuge this week, she framed her success as being born out of personal tragedy. “I was going through an adulterous divorce in which my ex-husband sued me and I accumulated a lot of legal debt,” she says. “I felt discouraged in the English-speaking academia because of certain personal experiences related to that personal tragedy, so I turned my attention back to the Chinese-speaking world to build a career there and pay off my debt.”

When I started digging into Zhuge’s career, I was shocked by her level of productivity. Aside from publishing philosophy translations and writing articles for Chinese media outlets, she has recorded more than 360 episodes of her podcast Monologues of a Committed Observer in just the last three years. That’s an average of one new episode every three days. Most of the time, she just monologues about political science concepts for a half an hour, seemingly unscripted. On XiaoyuzhouFM, the most popular podcast streaming platform in China, she has over 940,000 subscribers.

But despite her prolific posting, Zhuge claims she isn’t interested in being famous. “I have no attachment to fame and no desire to preserve it for its own sake,” she tells me. “What I want is enough freedom and time to build a life centered on thought. That life requires some money, but not very much.”

View From America

When Zhuge asked Nolan if he saw himself as “a bard for a civilization at dusk,” she says she didn’t have a particular civilization in mind.

She views the question instead as part of the long philosophical tradition of pondering the demise of value systems. “I was not primarily attempting to issue a verdict on the contemporary United States,” she says, but “people are free to interpret the phrase through current debates about American or Western decline.”

#Chinese #Philosopher #Americans #Stop #Fightingmade in china,china,christopher nolan,movies,interviews,hollywood,philosophy">The Chinese Philosopher Americans Can’t Stop Fighting AboutYiyang Zhuge learned last week that when you go extremely viral, the people you have been following for years suddenly start following you back. Zhuge logged onto X and found that a string of famous professors and scholars were in her list of new followers. A PhD candidate in political philosophy at Boston College, Zhuge had previously only lurked on X to keep up with the latest debates and gossip in academia. The vast majority of her social media activity happens on the Chinese internet, where she goes by the alias Zhong Shu and hosts a popular podcast with hundreds of thousands of loyal listeners.Late last month, Zhuge, who is in her late twenties, interviewed Christopher Nolan, one of the most influential directors in Hollywood, who was in Beijing promoting The Odyssey. Rather than asking about celebrities or Hollywood, Zhuge posed a series of deeply philosophical questions to Nolan about the Christianization of Greek philosophy and how to portray heroes in films. The first thing she asked: “Are you a bard for a civilization at dusk?”Nolan was visibly impressed by Zhuge. After the interview was published in China, Geoff Keighley, a video game journalist and the son of Nolan’s longtime friend David Keighley, shared the interview on X, calling it “a great listen.” Keighley’s video has been watched over 18 million times, and when Zhuge later posted the interview on her own X account, it racked up another 6.9 million views.For the first time, Zhuge had become the main character of the English-speaking internet. She was being praised, mocked, criticized, and defended all at the same time. Many people said it was the best interview Nolan has done for The Odyssey, while the National Review called it a “CCP hostage video.” But everyone ultimately wanted to know the same thing: Who was this young Chinese woman with a bob haircut talking about the decline of civilizations?While almost no one in the West knows her name, Zhuge is already one of the most prominent young intellectuals in China and has been interviewed by many of the country’s cultural elite. She was featured in Vogue China as an example of a successful woman in her twenties and frequently shares yoga and fitness tips to her 360,000 fans on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu.When I spoke to Zhuge this week, she framed her success as being born out of personal tragedy. “I was going through an adulterous divorce in which my ex-husband sued me and I accumulated a lot of legal debt,” she says. “I felt discouraged in the English-speaking academia because of certain personal experiences related to that personal tragedy, so I turned my attention back to the Chinese-speaking world to build a career there and pay off my debt.”When I started digging into Zhuge’s career, I was shocked by her level of productivity. Aside from publishing philosophy translations and writing articles for Chinese media outlets, she has recorded more than 360 episodes of her podcast Monologues of a Committed Observer in just the last three years. That’s an average of one new episode every three days. Most of the time, she just monologues about political science concepts for a half an hour, seemingly unscripted. On XiaoyuzhouFM, the most popular podcast streaming platform in China, she has over 940,000 subscribers.But despite her prolific posting, Zhuge claims she isn’t interested in being famous. “I have no attachment to fame and no desire to preserve it for its own sake,” she tells me. “What I want is enough freedom and time to build a life centered on thought. That life requires some money, but not very much.”View From AmericaWhen Zhuge asked Nolan if he saw himself as “a bard for a civilization at dusk,” she says she didn’t have a particular civilization in mind.She views the question instead as part of the long philosophical tradition of pondering the demise of value systems. “I was not primarily attempting to issue a verdict on the contemporary United States,” she says, but “people are free to interpret the phrase through current debates about American or Western decline.”#Chinese #Philosopher #Americans #Stop #Fightingmade in china,china,christopher nolan,movies,interviews,hollywood,philosophy

the Chinese internet, where she goes by the alias Zhong Shu and hosts a popular podcast with hundreds of thousands of loyal listeners.

Late last month, Zhuge, who is in her late twenties, interviewed Christopher Nolan, one of the most influential directors in Hollywood, who was in Beijing promoting The Odyssey. Rather than asking about celebrities or Hollywood, Zhuge posed a series of deeply philosophical questions to Nolan about the Christianization of Greek philosophy and how to portray heroes in films. The first thing she asked: “Are you a bard for a civilization at dusk?”

Nolan was visibly impressed by Zhuge. After the interview was published in China, Geoff Keighley, a video game journalist and the son of Nolan’s longtime friend David Keighley, shared the interview on X, calling it “a great listen.” Keighley’s video has been watched over 18 million times, and when Zhuge later posted the interview on her own X account, it racked up another 6.9 million views.

For the first time, Zhuge had become the main character of the English-speaking internet. She was being praised, mocked, criticized, and defended all at the same time. Many people said it was the best interview Nolan has done for The Odyssey, while the National Review called it a “CCP hostage video.” But everyone ultimately wanted to know the same thing: Who was this young Chinese woman with a bob haircut talking about the decline of civilizations?

While almost no one in the West knows her name, Zhuge is already one of the most prominent young intellectuals in China and has been interviewed by many of the country’s cultural elite. She was featured in Vogue China as an example of a successful woman in her twenties and frequently shares yoga and fitness tips to her 360,000 fans on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu.

When I spoke to Zhuge this week, she framed her success as being born out of personal tragedy. “I was going through an adulterous divorce in which my ex-husband sued me and I accumulated a lot of legal debt,” she says. “I felt discouraged in the English-speaking academia because of certain personal experiences related to that personal tragedy, so I turned my attention back to the Chinese-speaking world to build a career there and pay off my debt.”

When I started digging into Zhuge’s career, I was shocked by her level of productivity. Aside from publishing philosophy translations and writing articles for Chinese media outlets, she has recorded more than 360 episodes of her podcast Monologues of a Committed Observer in just the last three years. That’s an average of one new episode every three days. Most of the time, she just monologues about political science concepts for a half an hour, seemingly unscripted. On XiaoyuzhouFM, the most popular podcast streaming platform in China, she has over 940,000 subscribers.

But despite her prolific posting, Zhuge claims she isn’t interested in being famous. “I have no attachment to fame and no desire to preserve it for its own sake,” she tells me. “What I want is enough freedom and time to build a life centered on thought. That life requires some money, but not very much.”

View From America

When Zhuge asked Nolan if he saw himself as “a bard for a civilization at dusk,” she says she didn’t have a particular civilization in mind.

She views the question instead as part of the long philosophical tradition of pondering the demise of value systems. “I was not primarily attempting to issue a verdict on the contemporary United States,” she says, but “people are free to interpret the phrase through current debates about American or Western decline.”

#Chinese #Philosopher #Americans #Stop #Fightingmade in china,china,christopher nolan,movies,interviews,hollywood,philosophy">The Chinese Philosopher Americans Can’t Stop Fighting About

Yiyang Zhuge learned last week that when you go extremely viral, the people you have been following for years suddenly start following you back. Zhuge logged onto X and found that a string of famous professors and scholars were in her list of new followers. A PhD candidate in political philosophy at Boston College, Zhuge had previously only lurked on X to keep up with the latest debates and gossip in academia. The vast majority of her social media activity happens on the Chinese internet, where she goes by the alias Zhong Shu and hosts a popular podcast with hundreds of thousands of loyal listeners.

Late last month, Zhuge, who is in her late twenties, interviewed Christopher Nolan, one of the most influential directors in Hollywood, who was in Beijing promoting The Odyssey. Rather than asking about celebrities or Hollywood, Zhuge posed a series of deeply philosophical questions to Nolan about the Christianization of Greek philosophy and how to portray heroes in films. The first thing she asked: “Are you a bard for a civilization at dusk?”

Nolan was visibly impressed by Zhuge. After the interview was published in China, Geoff Keighley, a video game journalist and the son of Nolan’s longtime friend David Keighley, shared the interview on X, calling it “a great listen.” Keighley’s video has been watched over 18 million times, and when Zhuge later posted the interview on her own X account, it racked up another 6.9 million views.

For the first time, Zhuge had become the main character of the English-speaking internet. She was being praised, mocked, criticized, and defended all at the same time. Many people said it was the best interview Nolan has done for The Odyssey, while the National Review called it a “CCP hostage video.” But everyone ultimately wanted to know the same thing: Who was this young Chinese woman with a bob haircut talking about the decline of civilizations?

While almost no one in the West knows her name, Zhuge is already one of the most prominent young intellectuals in China and has been interviewed by many of the country’s cultural elite. She was featured in Vogue China as an example of a successful woman in her twenties and frequently shares yoga and fitness tips to her 360,000 fans on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu.

When I spoke to Zhuge this week, she framed her success as being born out of personal tragedy. “I was going through an adulterous divorce in which my ex-husband sued me and I accumulated a lot of legal debt,” she says. “I felt discouraged in the English-speaking academia because of certain personal experiences related to that personal tragedy, so I turned my attention back to the Chinese-speaking world to build a career there and pay off my debt.”

When I started digging into Zhuge’s career, I was shocked by her level of productivity. Aside from publishing philosophy translations and writing articles for Chinese media outlets, she has recorded more than 360 episodes of her podcast Monologues of a Committed Observer in just the last three years. That’s an average of one new episode every three days. Most of the time, she just monologues about political science concepts for a half an hour, seemingly unscripted. On XiaoyuzhouFM, the most popular podcast streaming platform in China, she has over 940,000 subscribers.

But despite her prolific posting, Zhuge claims she isn’t interested in being famous. “I have no attachment to fame and no desire to preserve it for its own sake,” she tells me. “What I want is enough freedom and time to build a life centered on thought. That life requires some money, but not very much.”

View From America

When Zhuge asked Nolan if he saw himself as “a bard for a civilization at dusk,” she says she didn’t have a particular civilization in mind.

She views the question instead as part of the long philosophical tradition of pondering the demise of value systems. “I was not primarily attempting to issue a verdict on the contemporary United States,” she says, but “people are free to interpret the phrase through current debates about American or Western decline.”

#Chinese #Philosopher #Americans #Stop #Fightingmade in china,china,christopher nolan,movies,interviews,hollywood,philosophy

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