‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Bertie Carvel Reveals Why We Never Saw Baelor’s Trial of Seven Fight

Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms Episode 5.After building up the last couple of episodes, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms finally reveals the Trial of Seven on screen in Episode 5. After Aerion (Finn Bennett) is attacked by Dunk (Peter Claffey) at the end of Episode 3, and Egg (Dexter Sol Ansell) reveals his true identity to his companion, tensions have been high. Refusing a one-on-one match against Dunk, Aerion instead calls for a Trial of Seven to settle their problems. While Aerion has his father, Maekar (Sam Spruell), his brother, Daeron (Henry Ashton), three kingsguard, and the recent turncoat Steffon Fossoway (Edward Ashley), it’s a bit more difficult for Dunk to find the other six knights he needs for his side of things.

By the end of Episode 4, he’s lost Steffon to Aerion but gains his cousin Raymun (Shaun Thomas) instead. Egg manages to get him the one-eyed Robyn Rhysling (William Houston), and both Humfrey Beesbury (Danny Collins) and Humfrey Hardyng (Ross Anderson), and of course, Dunk has his new friend Lyonel Baratheon (Daniel Ings) to help him out. However after all of that, Dunk is still missing one more person, and it is Bertie Carvel‘s Baelor Targaryen who steps in to face off against three members of his family. In a daring and chaotic fight, we ultimately see Dunk come out on top after overpowering Aerion, but in the final moments of the episode, Daeron’s prophetic dream comes true, and Baelor, after being struck by Maekar, falls dead after removing his helm. We discussed this final battle and death with Carvel, as well as Baelor’s true nature and how it differs from his other Targaryen family members. Carvel also gets into his love of the universe of A Song of Ice and Fire and reveals what attracted him the most to this story.

Bertie Carvel’s Love for ‘Game of Thrones’ Goes Much Deeper Than You Think

“We should be telling stories about how the ordinary people matter…”

Image via HBO

COLLIDER: What was has it been like stepping into such a massive universe like Game of Thrones, and how much knowledge did you have about the world coming into it?

BERTIE CARVEL: Quite a lot, I suppose. I loved the show. I went out and bought all the books after the first season, tore through them, and then tore through the rest of the show and loved it, and it felt very familiar to me. I spent a lot of time — more time than a modern human should — with a sword in my hand, pretending to be a hero or a villain in a complex moral universe, so take that how you will. It felt very familiar to me and very real, and I loved its contours.

And then I didn’t know these stories until I was sent the script. I tore through the scripts, really, really rare this in this day and age to get all the scripts to sort of land like a monolith on your desk, and so I loved reading them, and I felt something wake up that I used to feel as a boy reading stories about knighthood and chivalry that seems to have been asleep for some time. A story in a world I recognized that contained cruelty and cynicism and hard truths, here was a story in which there was a space for a hero, and I really felt like, yes, this is what I need. This is what I want to be a part of.

And that’s a good thing. The more I reflect on it, and the more I talk about it, the more I realize that there is something really important about those stories right now. We should be telling stories about how the ordinary people matter, and what you do and say matters, and standing up for what’s right matters, and I don’t know what the end of this story is yet — none of us does — but I’ve got a feeling that it counts. And I want to hear those stories right now.

Duncan and Egg cheering in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Timeline Explained: Where Dunk and Egg Fit in ‘Game of Thrones’ History

The ‘Game of Thrones’ series is not told chronologically.

Carvel Discusses Baelor’s True Nature in ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’

“That’s what I think makes the story have some kind of moral weight to it.”

Targaryens are often portrayed in the show as these semi-villainous characters, but Baelor is actually a very noble character, and very chivalrous. What was it like for you balancing those two aspects of his character? Did you talk to Ira [Parker] or George [R.R. Martin] about playing him and how you lean into this good nature that he has?

CARVEL: I don’t believe anyone has a good nature. Well, actually, that’s a bit flippant. I guess I believe profoundly that character is behavior, so what we do is what we are. And I suppose I’d like to be more essentialist than that; I’d like to believe that people have a good nature, that in general, people have a good nature. But I guess what I’m trying to say is you don’t know before, until after. Baelor does not know that he will do the right thing from one moment to the next, and what makes it exciting is to find out he is good because he chooses to do good things, and he is bad when he chooses to do bad things, and we have to make up our minds from one moment to the next, which is which. That’s what I think makes the story have some kind of moral weight to it.

So, it’s not a given that he will, in fact, in order to make the story exciting, I want you to believe that he might just as well rip your head off as wrap his arms around you in a warm embrace. And he has to contain the potential of the best of the Targaryens, to strike clean and hard and cut through the jugular. That was what made it exciting. But yes, you’re right. What he does in the story is certainly what I regard to be deeply noble, and I think, yeah, I’m really up for hearing those stories right now.

Carvel Reveals Whether We Were Ever Going to See Maekar and Baelor Fighting in ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’

“…we’re not really with Baelor, in that sense, we’re with Dunk.”

Bertie Carvel as Baelor Targaryen and Sam Spruell as Maekar Targaryen standing next to each other in armor in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms — Bertie Carvel as Baelor Targaryen and Sam Spruell as Maekar Targaryen in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

I love that scene when Baelor rides in for the Trial of Seven. I think that was a fantastic moment when he came out. Was there ever a version of that final sequence where we see him actually face off with Maekar? Because I was very sad that we didn’t get that. Was there ever a version of that, or were we always meant to see him come in at the end and assume that everything was okay before he dies?

CARVEL: This is probably a question for Ira [Parker] more than for me. I mean, the two things that strikes me to say, one, is that I think one of the things that’s kind of thrilling about this series is that we’ve gotten used to this universe where no one character is the protagonist, and where in A Song of Ice and Fire, George changes the angle of attack all the time and destabilizes you in that way, and you see that everything has multiple viewpoints, there’s a sort of moral relativism there, which is really exciting. In this story, we very much stay with Dunk, and so I guess you see that sequence through Dunk’s eyes.

There was a moment where it was like a fleeting moment that we shot, which was the moment where Maekar strikes Baelor, and the moment just leading up to that with the brothers. But, I guess you’d have to ask Ira, but I think they probably chose not to show that because it sort of spoils what’s about to come next. But we’re not really with Baelor, in that sense, we’re with Dunk. And I hope that answers the question, but the short answer is no.

New episodes of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms airs every Sunday on HBO in the U.S.