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DJI couldn’t confirm or deny it disguised this drone to evade a US ban

DJI couldn’t confirm or deny it disguised this drone to evade a US ban

DJI barely sells drones in the United States anymore. The shelves are bare; resellers are jacking up prices. It appears an unofficial ban at US customs is to blame. But on Amazon, you can now buy a drone that’s a a dead ringer for the DJI Mini 4 Pro — the SkyRover X1 — for a reasonable $758. And that’s probably because DJI made it happen.

There’s evidence suggesting so, and DJI was not able to immediately deny the SkyRover X1 was a DJI product when we reached out.

As reported by DroneXL, security researchers have discovered the SkyRover X1 not only has the same specs, features, and an incredibly similar app to the one DJI provides for its drones, it uses DJI’s own online infrastructure.

“It has connections to @DJIGlobal @DJISupport @DJIEnterprise via @DJIFlySafe references, and ‘AASKY’ references,” tweeted Kevin Finisterre, a hacker who’s made headlines for digging into DJI’s products in the past. Finisterre was even able to log in with his DJI username and password.

Image: Kevin Finisterre (X)

Another security consultant, Jon Sawyer, discovered the SkyRover app even uses the same encryption keys as DJI, and that the company which created the app only did a rudimentary job of trying to hide its tracks, renaming instances of “DJI” to “xxx” or “uav.”

But that’s not the only shady thing going on: someone doesn’t want you to know this drone is a DJI-alike. After drone reviewer AirPhotography took flak in the comments of his SkyRover X1 review for not pointing out obvious similarities to DJI, he revealed that he’d agreed not to mention any other drone brands in the video in order to secure the review unit. “That was their only stipulation,” he wrote.

Image: YouTube

AirPhotography has since thought better of this, it seems; he now has two extra videos that directly compare to the Mini 4 Pro, calling it “suspiciously similar”:

Note that the drone isn’t exactly the same. AirPhotography says there are slight differences with the camera, and he told viewers that the SkyRover won’t fit existing DJI batteries and won’t connect to existing DJI controllers. He put up another video shortly before we published this story to get into all the differences.

We gave DJI a full day to confirm or deny whether the SkyRover X1 is a DJI product, but the company was not able to meet that deadline. “I’m still looking into this with our headquarters team,” spokesperson Regina Lin tells The Verge.

If the SkyRover X1 is created or licensed by DJI, it wouldn’t be the first time. US lawmakers are already aware — and some are annoyed — that DJI found a seeming loophole by finding a US company, Anzu Robotics, to manufacture a Mavic 3 clone called the Raptor, and a Hong Kong one, Cogito, for the Specta and Specta Mini clones.

The SkyRover X1 seems to be made by SZ Knowact in Malaysia, according to FCC filings. Malaysia is currently a popular destination for Chinese companies to escape the worst of US tariffs, though it too may have a higher rate in August.

“Classy move @DJIGlobal.”

“Classy move @DJIGlobal.”
Image: Konrad Iturbe (X)

The SkyRover app lists SZ Knowact as its developer in Apple’s App Store, and as Konrad Iturbe shows, its website is nearly identical to the one that Cogito provides for its own DJI clones.

The US government has yet to formally ban DJI drones, but a de facto ban will happen automatically by December if “an appropriate national security agency” doesn’t publicly declare that its products do not “pose an unacceptable risk to the national security of the United States.” The US Commerce Department finally opened an investigation to figure that out on July 1st.

Here’s my interview with DJI about what will happen if the ban goes through.

In the meanwhile, DJI has stated that US Customs is blocking many of its drones from entering the United States. US Customs and Border Protection will not deny this: we’ve repeatedly asked, but the agency claims it’s not allowed to say even that. Here’s a statement via CBP spokesperson Trish Driscoll:

CBP is not authorized to disclose specific company or commodity information pursuant to various federal laws and internal policies including but not limited to the Trade Secrets Act (18 USC 1905), and certain information that may be responsive to your request may also be deemed to be law enforcement sensitive information, which CBP will not disclose. This response ensures the confidentiality of proprietary trade information and law enforcement sensitive information, which in turn preserves commercial privacy and trust in CBP handling of sensitive information.

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For some social media users, Facebook may feel like an app left behind in an online era of the past. However, for others, Facebook has reinvented itself as the modern-day Craigslist with Facebook Marketplace.

Meta seems to have taken notice and is now releasing a standalone app for the Facebook Marketplace power users who keep the platform going: It’s sellers.

The new app, aptly named Seller, launched on Friday and provides Facebook Marketplace sellers with tools to list their wares and manage their current listings. 

Like Facebook Marketplace itself, the Seller app is free for users. Meta monetizes Facebook Marketplace with ads and does not take any percentage of its users’ sales. Users will be able to download the app and login with their Facebook account starting today.

Meta launches Seller, a standalone app for Facebook Marketplace sellers
                                                            For some social media users, Facebook may feel like an app left behind in an online era of the past. However, for others, Facebook has reinvented itself as the modern-day Craigslist with Facebook Marketplace.Meta seems to have taken notice and is now releasing a standalone app for the Facebook Marketplace power users who keep the platform going: It’s sellers.The new app, aptly named Seller, launched on Friday and provides Facebook Marketplace sellers with tools to list their wares and manage their current listings. 
Like Facebook Marketplace itself, the Seller app is free for users. Meta monetizes Facebook Marketplace with ads and does not take any percentage of its users’ sales. Users will be able to download the app and login with their Facebook account starting today.
        
            Mashable Light Speed
        
        
    

    
                    


            
            
            
            Credit: Facebook
        
    
Seller provides a tool to post new listings, a dashboard to manage their existing ones, an in-app inbox to reply to prospective buyers, and analytics for all of their old listings. Seller also introduces a few new tools for sellers as well. According to Facebook, Seller users will be able to scan their products with their smartphone, and AI will fill-out the listing details automatically.In an interview with the New York Times, Facebook head Tom Allison said that the app would be the Marketplace seller equivalent of a video editing tool for content creators. Allison also explained how Meta is experimenting with more standalone products for Facebook’s power users, which include Marketplace Sellers and Facebook Groups administrators.
As social media users move to competing platforms like TikTok and Meta’s own Instagram, Facebook has found new life within specific, once-niche features on the platform. In May, Facebook launched a standalone app called Forum for its Facebook Groups power users. Now, the company is doing the same for Facebook Marketplace sellers.Meta says that one-third of young adults who use Facebook also use Marketplace. And, every month, more than 420 million items are listed on the Marketplace platform. 

                    
                                            
                            
                        
                                    #Meta #launches #Seller #standalone #app #Facebook #Marketplace #sellers

Credit: Facebook

Seller provides a tool to post new listings, a dashboard to manage their existing ones, an in-app inbox to reply to prospective buyers, and analytics for all of their old listings. 

Seller also introduces a few new tools for sellers as well. According to Facebook, Seller users will be able to scan their products with their smartphone, and AI will fill-out the listing details automatically.

In an interview with the New York Times, Facebook head Tom Allison said that the app would be the Marketplace seller equivalent of a video editing tool for content creators. Allison also explained how Meta is experimenting with more standalone products for Facebook’s power users, which include Marketplace Sellers and Facebook Groups administrators.

As social media users move to competing platforms like TikTok and Meta’s own Instagram, Facebook has found new life within specific, once-niche features on the platform. In May, Facebook launched a standalone app called Forum for its Facebook Groups power users. Now, the company is doing the same for Facebook Marketplace sellers.

Meta says that one-third of young adults who use Facebook also use Marketplace. And, every month, more than 420 million items are listed on the Marketplace platform. 

#Meta #launches #Seller #standalone #app #Facebook #Marketplace #sellers">Meta launches Seller, a standalone app for Facebook Marketplace sellers
                                                            For some social media users, Facebook may feel like an app left behind in an online era of the past. However, for others, Facebook has reinvented itself as the modern-day Craigslist with Facebook Marketplace.Meta seems to have taken notice and is now releasing a standalone app for the Facebook Marketplace power users who keep the platform going: It’s sellers.The new app, aptly named Seller, launched on Friday and provides Facebook Marketplace sellers with tools to list their wares and manage their current listings. 
Like Facebook Marketplace itself, the Seller app is free for users. Meta monetizes Facebook Marketplace with ads and does not take any percentage of its users’ sales. Users will be able to download the app and login with their Facebook account starting today.
        
            Mashable Light Speed
        
        
    

    
                    


            
            
            
            Credit: Facebook
        
    
Seller provides a tool to post new listings, a dashboard to manage their existing ones, an in-app inbox to reply to prospective buyers, and analytics for all of their old listings. Seller also introduces a few new tools for sellers as well. According to Facebook, Seller users will be able to scan their products with their smartphone, and AI will fill-out the listing details automatically.In an interview with the New York Times, Facebook head Tom Allison said that the app would be the Marketplace seller equivalent of a video editing tool for content creators. Allison also explained how Meta is experimenting with more standalone products for Facebook’s power users, which include Marketplace Sellers and Facebook Groups administrators.
As social media users move to competing platforms like TikTok and Meta’s own Instagram, Facebook has found new life within specific, once-niche features on the platform. In May, Facebook launched a standalone app called Forum for its Facebook Groups power users. Now, the company is doing the same for Facebook Marketplace sellers.Meta says that one-third of young adults who use Facebook also use Marketplace. And, every month, more than 420 million items are listed on the Marketplace platform. 

                    
                                            
                            
                        
                                    #Meta #launches #Seller #standalone #app #Facebook #Marketplace #sellers

releasing a standalone app for the Facebook Marketplace power users who keep the platform going: It’s sellers.

The new app, aptly named Seller, launched on Friday and provides Facebook Marketplace sellers with tools to list their wares and manage their current listings. 

Like Facebook Marketplace itself, the Seller app is free for users. Meta monetizes Facebook Marketplace with ads and does not take any percentage of its users’ sales. Users will be able to download the app and login with their Facebook account starting today.

Meta launches Seller, a standalone app for Facebook Marketplace sellers
                                                            For some social media users, Facebook may feel like an app left behind in an online era of the past. However, for others, Facebook has reinvented itself as the modern-day Craigslist with Facebook Marketplace.Meta seems to have taken notice and is now releasing a standalone app for the Facebook Marketplace power users who keep the platform going: It’s sellers.The new app, aptly named Seller, launched on Friday and provides Facebook Marketplace sellers with tools to list their wares and manage their current listings. 
Like Facebook Marketplace itself, the Seller app is free for users. Meta monetizes Facebook Marketplace with ads and does not take any percentage of its users’ sales. Users will be able to download the app and login with their Facebook account starting today.
        
            Mashable Light Speed
        
        
    

    
                    


            
            
            
            Credit: Facebook
        
    
Seller provides a tool to post new listings, a dashboard to manage their existing ones, an in-app inbox to reply to prospective buyers, and analytics for all of their old listings. Seller also introduces a few new tools for sellers as well. According to Facebook, Seller users will be able to scan their products with their smartphone, and AI will fill-out the listing details automatically.In an interview with the New York Times, Facebook head Tom Allison said that the app would be the Marketplace seller equivalent of a video editing tool for content creators. Allison also explained how Meta is experimenting with more standalone products for Facebook’s power users, which include Marketplace Sellers and Facebook Groups administrators.
As social media users move to competing platforms like TikTok and Meta’s own Instagram, Facebook has found new life within specific, once-niche features on the platform. In May, Facebook launched a standalone app called Forum for its Facebook Groups power users. Now, the company is doing the same for Facebook Marketplace sellers.Meta says that one-third of young adults who use Facebook also use Marketplace. And, every month, more than 420 million items are listed on the Marketplace platform. 

                    
                                            
                            
                        
                                    #Meta #launches #Seller #standalone #app #Facebook #Marketplace #sellers

Credit: Facebook

Seller provides a tool to post new listings, a dashboard to manage their existing ones, an in-app inbox to reply to prospective buyers, and analytics for all of their old listings. 

Seller also introduces a few new tools for sellers as well. According to Facebook, Seller users will be able to scan their products with their smartphone, and AI will fill-out the listing details automatically.

In an interview with the New York Times, Facebook head Tom Allison said that the app would be the Marketplace seller equivalent of a video editing tool for content creators. Allison also explained how Meta is experimenting with more standalone products for Facebook’s power users, which include Marketplace Sellers and Facebook Groups administrators.

As social media users move to competing platforms like TikTok and Meta’s own Instagram, Facebook has found new life within specific, once-niche features on the platform. In May, Facebook launched a standalone app called Forum for its Facebook Groups power users. Now, the company is doing the same for Facebook Marketplace sellers.

Meta says that one-third of young adults who use Facebook also use Marketplace. And, every month, more than 420 million items are listed on the Marketplace platform. 

#Meta #launches #Seller #standalone #app #Facebook #Marketplace #sellers">Meta launches Seller, a standalone app for Facebook Marketplace sellers

For some social media users, Facebook may feel like an app left behind in an online era of the past. However, for others, Facebook has reinvented itself as the modern-day Craigslist with Facebook Marketplace.

Meta seems to have taken notice and is now releasing a standalone app for the Facebook Marketplace power users who keep the platform going: It’s sellers.

The new app, aptly named Seller, launched on Friday and provides Facebook Marketplace sellers with tools to list their wares and manage their current listings. 

Like Facebook Marketplace itself, the Seller app is free for users. Meta monetizes Facebook Marketplace with ads and does not take any percentage of its users’ sales. Users will be able to download the app and login with their Facebook account starting today.

Meta launches Seller, a standalone app for Facebook Marketplace sellers
                                                            For some social media users, Facebook may feel like an app left behind in an online era of the past. However, for others, Facebook has reinvented itself as the modern-day Craigslist with Facebook Marketplace.Meta seems to have taken notice and is now releasing a standalone app for the Facebook Marketplace power users who keep the platform going: It’s sellers.The new app, aptly named Seller, launched on Friday and provides Facebook Marketplace sellers with tools to list their wares and manage their current listings. 
Like Facebook Marketplace itself, the Seller app is free for users. Meta monetizes Facebook Marketplace with ads and does not take any percentage of its users’ sales. Users will be able to download the app and login with their Facebook account starting today.
        
            Mashable Light Speed
        
        
    

    
                    


            
            
            
            Credit: Facebook
        
    
Seller provides a tool to post new listings, a dashboard to manage their existing ones, an in-app inbox to reply to prospective buyers, and analytics for all of their old listings. Seller also introduces a few new tools for sellers as well. According to Facebook, Seller users will be able to scan their products with their smartphone, and AI will fill-out the listing details automatically.In an interview with the New York Times, Facebook head Tom Allison said that the app would be the Marketplace seller equivalent of a video editing tool for content creators. Allison also explained how Meta is experimenting with more standalone products for Facebook’s power users, which include Marketplace Sellers and Facebook Groups administrators.
As social media users move to competing platforms like TikTok and Meta’s own Instagram, Facebook has found new life within specific, once-niche features on the platform. In May, Facebook launched a standalone app called Forum for its Facebook Groups power users. Now, the company is doing the same for Facebook Marketplace sellers.Meta says that one-third of young adults who use Facebook also use Marketplace. And, every month, more than 420 million items are listed on the Marketplace platform. 

                    
                                            
                            
                        
                                    #Meta #launches #Seller #standalone #app #Facebook #Marketplace #sellers

Credit: Facebook

Seller provides a tool to post new listings, a dashboard to manage their existing ones, an in-app inbox to reply to prospective buyers, and analytics for all of their old listings. 

Seller also introduces a few new tools for sellers as well. According to Facebook, Seller users will be able to scan their products with their smartphone, and AI will fill-out the listing details automatically.

In an interview with the New York Times, Facebook head Tom Allison said that the app would be the Marketplace seller equivalent of a video editing tool for content creators. Allison also explained how Meta is experimenting with more standalone products for Facebook’s power users, which include Marketplace Sellers and Facebook Groups administrators.

As social media users move to competing platforms like TikTok and Meta’s own Instagram, Facebook has found new life within specific, once-niche features on the platform. In May, Facebook launched a standalone app called Forum for its Facebook Groups power users. Now, the company is doing the same for Facebook Marketplace sellers.

Meta says that one-third of young adults who use Facebook also use Marketplace. And, every month, more than 420 million items are listed on the Marketplace platform. 

#Meta #launches #Seller #standalone #app #Facebook #Marketplace #sellers
For months, AI giants have devised special vetted programs and strict guardrails to limit the use of their models by malicious hackers. But these limits are now hindering the work of legitimate network defenders, as well as that of offensive cybersecurity researchers. 

In June, the U.S. government slapped export control restrictions on Anthropic’s much-hyped AI models Mythos and Fable. The move was prompted at least in part by a report that claimed it was possible to bypass the models’ guardrails designed to prevent users from using them to build and execute malicious cyberattacks.

Regardless of whether the incident was really motivated by fears of a jailbreak, the fact is that Anthropic has repeatedly marketed Mythos as some kind of doomsday cybermachine that can only be given to carefully vetted users, and even then with strict guardrails in place. (The export controls on Fable 5 and Mythos 5 have since been lifted. Fable 5 returned to general access on July 1; Mythos 5 has been reintroduced only to vetted U.S. organizations as part of the government’s review process.)

That kind of gatekeeping isn’t unique to Mythos. Both Anthropic, with its other models, and OpenAI offer cybersecurity researchers programs they can apply to get vetted and — if approved — access models with fewer cybersecurity restrictions: OpenAI’s Trusted Access for Cyber program and Anthropic’s Cyber Verification Program

These guardrails have been widely criticized, particularly by researchers whose job is to find unknown vulnerabilities in systems and devise ways to exploit them before criminals do.

During a recent appearance on a cybersecurity podcast, Mark Dowd, a well-known security researcher, said that, “it’s not really comfortable to me that these random large companies are making arbitrary decisions about what is safe in security and what’s not.”

Dowd has spent decades finding and selling “zero-days” — previously unknown software flaws and the exploits that take advantage of them — to Western governments, rather than reporting them to the software makers so they get patched. Governments pay a premium for vulnerabilities precisely because they stay open, which is useful for intelligence operations.

Dowd admitted his work may make him biased, but he isn’t alone. Several people who work in offensive cybersecurity — they proactively probe systems for weaknesses — described to TechCrunch how they use AI tools and deal with their guardrails. 

Chris Anley, the chief scientist at security consulting giant NCC Group, said that asking an AI model to try to exploit a bug is a key step in confirming it’s a real vulnerability worth fixing. But if a guardrail prompts the model to refuse to answer the question outright, the guardrail hurts defenders, he said.

“This is where the whole offensive versus defensive and guardrails part comes in, because ‘fix this code’ as a prompt is both an essential mechanism for defense but also a roadmap for finding critical vulnerabilities in the code base,” said Anley. “So at the same time, the same tool is both an offensive tool and a defensive tool, and the two can’t really be unpicked.”

It’s “like a hammer,” he continued. “You can’t build a house without a hammer. It’s definitely a tool but it’s also irreducibly a weapon as well.”

When he and his colleagues run into such a roadblock, they sometimes fall back on open source AI models that come with no guardrails at all.

Paolo Stagno, the chief technology officer at Crowdfense, a well-known company that develops, acquires, and sells unknown vulnerabilities to government agencies, agreed with Dowd, saying AI companies “essentially treat customers like children who need babysitting” with their vetted programs and guardrails. 

Stagno said he and his colleagues do use frontier models — but only for reverse engineering. They avoid using AI to help find vulnerabilities or build exploits, he said, because feeding that work into a cloud-based model risks leaking sensitive vulnerability data or having it absorbed into future training runs. For that step, he said, they use open source models run locally, as they do not rely on sharing data outside of the model. 

Giuseppe Cali, a security researcher who finds zero-days and develops exploits, said guardrails are not impeding his work. That’s because he doesn’t use AI for offensive work; instead, he uses it for initial reverse engineering, to understand the code he’s analyzing, and to build supporting tools. For that, he said, AI tools can speed up the process and allow him to focus on discovering vulnerabilities. 

“I still want to own the actual bug discovery and weaponization myself and that wouldn’t change if all guardrails were lifted tomorrow,” said Cali. “I am jealous of my bugs, and I like this game too much to let models play it for me.”

One researcher at a smartphone-component manufacturer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he isn’t authorized to talk to the press, said his employer isn’t part of Anthropic’s CVP program and as a result, its tools are barely useful for finding vulnerabilities because the guardrails are too strict.

“If it catches wind we’re doing anything security related, it just stops and isn’t usable,” the person said. 

Chris Thompson — chief executive of cybersecurity firm RemoteThreat and founder of Offensive AI Con, an offensive security and AI-focused event — said that in his experience using the frontier AI models, the guardrails can be inconsistent and work differently every day. That’s true even inside the looser boundaries of Anthropic’s and OpenAI’s vetted programs. 

“I think the practical impact is you spend a lot of time negotiating with the model instead of working on the core security program,” said Thompson. “Instead of analyzing a vulnerability and reasoning through the exploitability, you’re trying to find why you’re getting inconsistent results or why are models over-sanitizing the output.” 

Consequently, researchers rely on or get pushed toward Chinese open source models like GLM — freely downloadable models that can be run locally with no vetting or usage restrictions — said Thompson.

“You have these responsible researchers that are being pushed away from U.S.-governed systems to foreign-owned systems,” he said. “I think it’s more harmful than good to have these guardrails in place.”

Rather than tightening restrictions further, Thompson called for the AI frontier labs to open up their programs, provide responsible access, and hold those who abuse their tools accountable. Otherwise, he argued, defenders will lose the AI race.

“There’s this big storm coming. There’s this big wave of attacks that are going to happen at speed and scale like never before,” said Thompson. “But the same security consulting firms and legit researchers that are trying to make a difference are being stifled right now.”

When you purchase through links in our articles, we may earn a small commission. This doesn’t affect our editorial independence.

#guardrails #impeding #work #offensive #cybersecurity #researchers #TechCrunchcybersecurity,Zero-days">How AI guardrails are impeding the work of offensive cybersecurity researchers | TechCrunch
For months, AI giants have devised special vetted programs and strict guardrails to limit the use of their models by malicious hackers. But these limits are now hindering the work of legitimate network defenders, as well as that of offensive cybersecurity researchers. 

In June, the U.S. government slapped export control restrictions on Anthropic’s much-hyped AI models Mythos and Fable. The move was prompted at least in part by a report that claimed it was possible to bypass the models’ guardrails designed to prevent users from using them to build and execute malicious cyberattacks.







Regardless of whether the incident was really motivated by fears of a jailbreak, the fact is that Anthropic has repeatedly marketed Mythos as some kind of doomsday cybermachine that can only be given to carefully vetted users, and even then with strict guardrails in place. (The export controls on Fable 5 and Mythos 5 have since been lifted. Fable 5 returned to general access on July 1; Mythos 5 has been reintroduced only to vetted U.S. organizations as part of the government’s review process.)

That kind of gatekeeping isn’t unique to Mythos. Both Anthropic, with its other models, and OpenAI offer cybersecurity researchers programs they can apply to get vetted and — if approved — access models with fewer cybersecurity restrictions: OpenAI’s Trusted Access for Cyber program and Anthropic’s Cyber Verification Program. 

These guardrails have been widely criticized, particularly by researchers whose job is to find unknown vulnerabilities in systems and devise ways to exploit them before criminals do.

During a recent appearance on a cybersecurity podcast, Mark Dowd, a well-known security researcher, said that, “it’s not really comfortable to me that these random large companies are making arbitrary decisions about what is safe in security and what’s not.”

Dowd has spent decades finding and selling “zero-days” — previously unknown software flaws and the exploits that take advantage of them — to Western governments, rather than reporting them to the software makers so they get patched. Governments pay a premium for vulnerabilities precisely because they stay open, which is useful for intelligence operations.


Dowd admitted his work may make him biased, but he isn’t alone. Several people who work in offensive cybersecurity — they proactively probe systems for weaknesses  — described to TechCrunch how they use AI tools and deal with their guardrails. 

Chris Anley, the chief scientist at security consulting giant NCC Group, said that asking an AI model to try to exploit a bug is a key step in confirming it’s a real vulnerability worth fixing. But if a guardrail prompts the model to refuse to answer the question outright, the guardrail hurts defenders, he said. 

“This is where the whole offensive versus defensive and guardrails part comes in, because ‘fix this code’ as a prompt is both an essential mechanism for defense but also a roadmap for finding critical vulnerabilities in the code base,” said Anley. “So at the same time, the same tool is both an offensive tool and a defensive tool, and the two can’t really be unpicked.” 







It’s “like a hammer,” he continued. “You can’t build a house without a hammer. It’s definitely a tool but it’s also irreducibly a weapon as well.”

When he and his colleagues run into such a roadblock, they sometimes fall back on open source AI models that come with no guardrails at all.

Paolo Stagno, the chief technology officer at Crowdfense, a well-known company that develops, acquires, and sells unknown vulnerabilities to government agencies, agreed with Dowd, saying AI companies “essentially treat customers like children who need babysitting” with their vetted programs and guardrails. 

Stagno said he and his colleagues do use frontier models — but only for reverse engineering. They avoid using AI to help find vulnerabilities or build exploits, he said, because feeding that work into a cloud-based model risks leaking sensitive vulnerability data or having it absorbed into future training runs. For that step, he said, they use open source models run locally, as they do not rely on sharing data outside of the model. 

Giuseppe Cali, a security researcher who finds zero-days and develops exploits, said guardrails are not impeding his work. That’s because he doesn’t use AI for offensive work; instead, he uses it for initial reverse engineering, to understand the code he’s analyzing, and to build supporting tools. For that, he said, AI tools can speed up the process and allow him to focus on discovering vulnerabilities. 

“I still want to own the actual bug discovery and weaponization myself and that wouldn’t change if all guardrails were lifted tomorrow,” said Cali. “I am jealous of my bugs, and I like this game too much to let models play it for me.”

One researcher at a smartphone-component manufacturer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he isn’t authorized to talk to the press, said his employer isn’t part of Anthropic’s CVP program and as a result, its tools are barely useful for finding vulnerabilities because the guardrails are too strict.

“If it catches wind we’re doing anything security related, it just stops and isn’t usable,” the person said. 







Chris Thompson — chief executive of cybersecurity firm RemoteThreat and founder of Offensive AI Con, an offensive security and AI-focused event — said that in his experience using the frontier AI models, the guardrails can be inconsistent and work differently every day. That’s true even inside the looser boundaries of Anthropic’s and OpenAI’s vetted programs. 

“I think the practical impact is you spend a lot of time negotiating with the model instead of working on the core security program,” said Thompson. “Instead of analyzing a vulnerability and reasoning through the exploitability, you’re trying to find why you’re getting inconsistent results or why are models over-sanitizing the output.” 

Consequently, researchers rely on or get pushed toward Chinese open source models like GLM — freely downloadable models that can be run locally with no vetting or usage restrictions — said Thompson.

“You have these responsible researchers that are being pushed away from U.S.-governed systems to foreign-owned systems,” he said. “I think it’s more harmful than good to have these guardrails in place.”

Rather than tightening restrictions further, Thompson called for the AI frontier labs to open up their programs, provide responsible access, and hold those who abuse their tools accountable. Otherwise, he argued, defenders will lose the AI race.

“There’s this big storm coming. There’s this big wave of attacks that are going to happen at speed and scale like never before,” said Thompson. “But the same security consulting firms and legit researchers that are trying to make a difference are being stifled right now.”


When you purchase through links in our articles, we may earn a small commission. This doesn’t affect our editorial independence.#guardrails #impeding #work #offensive #cybersecurity #researchers #TechCrunchcybersecurity,Zero-days

slapped export control restrictions on Anthropic’s much-hyped AI models Mythos and Fable. The move was prompted at least in part by a report that claimed it was possible to bypass the models’ guardrails designed to prevent users from using them to build and execute malicious cyberattacks.

Regardless of whether the incident was really motivated by fears of a jailbreak, the fact is that Anthropic has repeatedly marketed Mythos as some kind of doomsday cybermachine that can only be given to carefully vetted users, and even then with strict guardrails in place. (The export controls on Fable 5 and Mythos 5 have since been lifted. Fable 5 returned to general access on July 1; Mythos 5 has been reintroduced only to vetted U.S. organizations as part of the government’s review process.)

That kind of gatekeeping isn’t unique to Mythos. Both Anthropic, with its other models, and OpenAI offer cybersecurity researchers programs they can apply to get vetted and — if approved — access models with fewer cybersecurity restrictions: OpenAI’s Trusted Access for Cyber program and Anthropic’s Cyber Verification Program

These guardrails have been widely criticized, particularly by researchers whose job is to find unknown vulnerabilities in systems and devise ways to exploit them before criminals do.

During a recent appearance on a cybersecurity podcast, Mark Dowd, a well-known security researcher, said that, “it’s not really comfortable to me that these random large companies are making arbitrary decisions about what is safe in security and what’s not.”

Dowd has spent decades finding and selling “zero-days” — previously unknown software flaws and the exploits that take advantage of them — to Western governments, rather than reporting them to the software makers so they get patched. Governments pay a premium for vulnerabilities precisely because they stay open, which is useful for intelligence operations.

Dowd admitted his work may make him biased, but he isn’t alone. Several people who work in offensive cybersecurity — they proactively probe systems for weaknesses — described to TechCrunch how they use AI tools and deal with their guardrails. 

Chris Anley, the chief scientist at security consulting giant NCC Group, said that asking an AI model to try to exploit a bug is a key step in confirming it’s a real vulnerability worth fixing. But if a guardrail prompts the model to refuse to answer the question outright, the guardrail hurts defenders, he said.

“This is where the whole offensive versus defensive and guardrails part comes in, because ‘fix this code’ as a prompt is both an essential mechanism for defense but also a roadmap for finding critical vulnerabilities in the code base,” said Anley. “So at the same time, the same tool is both an offensive tool and a defensive tool, and the two can’t really be unpicked.”

It’s “like a hammer,” he continued. “You can’t build a house without a hammer. It’s definitely a tool but it’s also irreducibly a weapon as well.”

When he and his colleagues run into such a roadblock, they sometimes fall back on open source AI models that come with no guardrails at all.

Paolo Stagno, the chief technology officer at Crowdfense, a well-known company that develops, acquires, and sells unknown vulnerabilities to government agencies, agreed with Dowd, saying AI companies “essentially treat customers like children who need babysitting” with their vetted programs and guardrails. 

Stagno said he and his colleagues do use frontier models — but only for reverse engineering. They avoid using AI to help find vulnerabilities or build exploits, he said, because feeding that work into a cloud-based model risks leaking sensitive vulnerability data or having it absorbed into future training runs. For that step, he said, they use open source models run locally, as they do not rely on sharing data outside of the model. 

Giuseppe Cali, a security researcher who finds zero-days and develops exploits, said guardrails are not impeding his work. That’s because he doesn’t use AI for offensive work; instead, he uses it for initial reverse engineering, to understand the code he’s analyzing, and to build supporting tools. For that, he said, AI tools can speed up the process and allow him to focus on discovering vulnerabilities. 

“I still want to own the actual bug discovery and weaponization myself and that wouldn’t change if all guardrails were lifted tomorrow,” said Cali. “I am jealous of my bugs, and I like this game too much to let models play it for me.”

One researcher at a smartphone-component manufacturer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he isn’t authorized to talk to the press, said his employer isn’t part of Anthropic’s CVP program and as a result, its tools are barely useful for finding vulnerabilities because the guardrails are too strict.

“If it catches wind we’re doing anything security related, it just stops and isn’t usable,” the person said. 

Chris Thompson — chief executive of cybersecurity firm RemoteThreat and founder of Offensive AI Con, an offensive security and AI-focused event — said that in his experience using the frontier AI models, the guardrails can be inconsistent and work differently every day. That’s true even inside the looser boundaries of Anthropic’s and OpenAI’s vetted programs. 

“I think the practical impact is you spend a lot of time negotiating with the model instead of working on the core security program,” said Thompson. “Instead of analyzing a vulnerability and reasoning through the exploitability, you’re trying to find why you’re getting inconsistent results or why are models over-sanitizing the output.” 

Consequently, researchers rely on or get pushed toward Chinese open source models like GLM — freely downloadable models that can be run locally with no vetting or usage restrictions — said Thompson.

“You have these responsible researchers that are being pushed away from U.S.-governed systems to foreign-owned systems,” he said. “I think it’s more harmful than good to have these guardrails in place.”

Rather than tightening restrictions further, Thompson called for the AI frontier labs to open up their programs, provide responsible access, and hold those who abuse their tools accountable. Otherwise, he argued, defenders will lose the AI race.

“There’s this big storm coming. There’s this big wave of attacks that are going to happen at speed and scale like never before,” said Thompson. “But the same security consulting firms and legit researchers that are trying to make a difference are being stifled right now.”

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#guardrails #impeding #work #offensive #cybersecurity #researchers #TechCrunchcybersecurity,Zero-days">How AI guardrails are impeding the work of offensive cybersecurity researchers | TechCrunch

For months, AI giants have devised special vetted programs and strict guardrails to limit the use of their models by malicious hackers. But these limits are now hindering the work of legitimate network defenders, as well as that of offensive cybersecurity researchers. 

In June, the U.S. government slapped export control restrictions on Anthropic’s much-hyped AI models Mythos and Fable. The move was prompted at least in part by a report that claimed it was possible to bypass the models’ guardrails designed to prevent users from using them to build and execute malicious cyberattacks.

Regardless of whether the incident was really motivated by fears of a jailbreak, the fact is that Anthropic has repeatedly marketed Mythos as some kind of doomsday cybermachine that can only be given to carefully vetted users, and even then with strict guardrails in place. (The export controls on Fable 5 and Mythos 5 have since been lifted. Fable 5 returned to general access on July 1; Mythos 5 has been reintroduced only to vetted U.S. organizations as part of the government’s review process.)

That kind of gatekeeping isn’t unique to Mythos. Both Anthropic, with its other models, and OpenAI offer cybersecurity researchers programs they can apply to get vetted and — if approved — access models with fewer cybersecurity restrictions: OpenAI’s Trusted Access for Cyber program and Anthropic’s Cyber Verification Program

These guardrails have been widely criticized, particularly by researchers whose job is to find unknown vulnerabilities in systems and devise ways to exploit them before criminals do.

During a recent appearance on a cybersecurity podcast, Mark Dowd, a well-known security researcher, said that, “it’s not really comfortable to me that these random large companies are making arbitrary decisions about what is safe in security and what’s not.”

Dowd has spent decades finding and selling “zero-days” — previously unknown software flaws and the exploits that take advantage of them — to Western governments, rather than reporting them to the software makers so they get patched. Governments pay a premium for vulnerabilities precisely because they stay open, which is useful for intelligence operations.

Dowd admitted his work may make him biased, but he isn’t alone. Several people who work in offensive cybersecurity — they proactively probe systems for weaknesses — described to TechCrunch how they use AI tools and deal with their guardrails. 

Chris Anley, the chief scientist at security consulting giant NCC Group, said that asking an AI model to try to exploit a bug is a key step in confirming it’s a real vulnerability worth fixing. But if a guardrail prompts the model to refuse to answer the question outright, the guardrail hurts defenders, he said.

“This is where the whole offensive versus defensive and guardrails part comes in, because ‘fix this code’ as a prompt is both an essential mechanism for defense but also a roadmap for finding critical vulnerabilities in the code base,” said Anley. “So at the same time, the same tool is both an offensive tool and a defensive tool, and the two can’t really be unpicked.”

It’s “like a hammer,” he continued. “You can’t build a house without a hammer. It’s definitely a tool but it’s also irreducibly a weapon as well.”

When he and his colleagues run into such a roadblock, they sometimes fall back on open source AI models that come with no guardrails at all.

Paolo Stagno, the chief technology officer at Crowdfense, a well-known company that develops, acquires, and sells unknown vulnerabilities to government agencies, agreed with Dowd, saying AI companies “essentially treat customers like children who need babysitting” with their vetted programs and guardrails. 

Stagno said he and his colleagues do use frontier models — but only for reverse engineering. They avoid using AI to help find vulnerabilities or build exploits, he said, because feeding that work into a cloud-based model risks leaking sensitive vulnerability data or having it absorbed into future training runs. For that step, he said, they use open source models run locally, as they do not rely on sharing data outside of the model. 

Giuseppe Cali, a security researcher who finds zero-days and develops exploits, said guardrails are not impeding his work. That’s because he doesn’t use AI for offensive work; instead, he uses it for initial reverse engineering, to understand the code he’s analyzing, and to build supporting tools. For that, he said, AI tools can speed up the process and allow him to focus on discovering vulnerabilities. 

“I still want to own the actual bug discovery and weaponization myself and that wouldn’t change if all guardrails were lifted tomorrow,” said Cali. “I am jealous of my bugs, and I like this game too much to let models play it for me.”

One researcher at a smartphone-component manufacturer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he isn’t authorized to talk to the press, said his employer isn’t part of Anthropic’s CVP program and as a result, its tools are barely useful for finding vulnerabilities because the guardrails are too strict.

“If it catches wind we’re doing anything security related, it just stops and isn’t usable,” the person said. 

Chris Thompson — chief executive of cybersecurity firm RemoteThreat and founder of Offensive AI Con, an offensive security and AI-focused event — said that in his experience using the frontier AI models, the guardrails can be inconsistent and work differently every day. That’s true even inside the looser boundaries of Anthropic’s and OpenAI’s vetted programs. 

“I think the practical impact is you spend a lot of time negotiating with the model instead of working on the core security program,” said Thompson. “Instead of analyzing a vulnerability and reasoning through the exploitability, you’re trying to find why you’re getting inconsistent results or why are models over-sanitizing the output.” 

Consequently, researchers rely on or get pushed toward Chinese open source models like GLM — freely downloadable models that can be run locally with no vetting or usage restrictions — said Thompson.

“You have these responsible researchers that are being pushed away from U.S.-governed systems to foreign-owned systems,” he said. “I think it’s more harmful than good to have these guardrails in place.”

Rather than tightening restrictions further, Thompson called for the AI frontier labs to open up their programs, provide responsible access, and hold those who abuse their tools accountable. Otherwise, he argued, defenders will lose the AI race.

“There’s this big storm coming. There’s this big wave of attacks that are going to happen at speed and scale like never before,” said Thompson. “But the same security consulting firms and legit researchers that are trying to make a difference are being stifled right now.”

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#guardrails #impeding #work #offensive #cybersecurity #researchers #TechCrunchcybersecurity,Zero-days

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